In today’s Servant Leader’s Library Podcast episode, we discuss impactful entrepreneurship and community engagement with Peter Barber, the co-founder of Two Dudes Painting Company.
Not your typical painting company, Two Dudes operates as a Certified B Corporation, blending profit with purpose to demonstrate how businesses can thrive while contributing positively to their communities.
Barber’s approach challenges conventional business practices and encourages us to think about how we, too, can serve our communities and industries with integrity and innovation.
Watch the episode above or listen over at Spotify. Make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss the next great servant leader’s story!
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Episode Transcript
Nicholas Paulukow
Welcome to the Servant Leader’s Library where we go behind the scenes with real Servant Leaders from all walks of life. Here’s your host Nick Paulukow. Welcome to Servant Leader’s Library Podcast. I’m your host Nicholas Paulukow CEO at ONE 2 ONE your friendly neighborhood MSP and cybersecurity IT firm. Today we’ve got a real treat for you Peter Barber one of the masterminds behind Two Dudes Painting Company. Now Two Dudes isn’t just any painting company.
It’s a certified bead corporation. Pete and his team are out there proving that they can run a successful business and still be a force for good. They’re like the superhero squad of the business world.
Now Pete’s not just slinging paint. He’s also deeply woven into the fabric of the community. He’s held leadership roles with the Lancaster Chamber the Lancaster City Alliance SoWe and the Lancaster City Home Rule Commission.
He’s basically a Batman of Lancaster fighting for a community with a paintbrush in one hand and leadership baton in the other. So grab your cape or your favorite paint roller and join us as we dive into Pete’s journey the story of Two Dudes Painting Company and how they’re making the world a brighter place literally and figuratively. And so Pete welcome to Servant Leader’s Library Podcast.
We’re so excited to have you today. What do you think of that intro?
Peter Barber
You are like Batman. You really worked on that one Nick. I got to give you props on that.
Holy smokes. Wow.
Nicholas Paulukow
I was like whoo!
Peter Barber
All kinds of superhero references. I’ve never been called a superhero before so that’s pretty awesome.
Nicholas Paulukow
I got to make it colorful you know. I mean I got to live up to the expectations.
Peter Barber
Yes yes yes. We are a painting company after all.
Nicholas Paulukow
Well thank you for joining us today. As everybody can hear Pete’s the superhero of Two Dudes Painting Company. But Pete kind of introduce yourself to everyone.
Tell them a little bit about yourself maybe your family community you know where you came from. That’s everything.
Peter Barber
So I’m a local guy. I mean I was born here in Lancaster Pennsylvania. Went through the Catholic school system here in Lancaster and funny stories of that.
So I went to Sacred Heart School which is a great little Catholic school here in Lancaster City. My grandmother went to Sacred Heart. My parents went to Sacred Heart.
I went to Sacred Heart. My kids went to Sacred Heart. So we all went through you know and while some of that story is like oh did you have some of the same teachers?
It’s like not all of us but actually my kids had some of the same teachers I had at Sacred Heart. You know how there’s that longevity of the teachers in these Catholic schools.
Nicholas Paulukow
What a dedication.
Peter Barber
Same thing happened at Lancaster Catholic. My grandparents were in the first class that actually went to Lancaster Catholic out at the Juliet Avenue when they moved out to there in 1929. And then same you know my kids were the first fourth generation graduates of Lancaster Catholic.
And so after being in Lancaster you know wanted to get you know kind of get out see the world understand what things were about for college like most of us do. So I took that big adventure five blocks from my home up to Franklin Marshall College walked up. I remember I actually lived on campus my freshman year.
I didn’t want to have that college experience. I remember I you know remember that first day of college when your dad loads up the family truckster and you drive everything. I hopped on my bike and rode up and I got in.
I got in the line of like everybody to pick up their keys to the room. The people like what the heck are you doing here? I’m like I just want my bike up.
Come on. It’s like I need the key. Let me get in.
So I went to F&M spent four phenomenal years there. And you know F&M is a great college great liberal arts education there and really have benefited from that tremendously throughout throughout my experience. And I’m sure we’ll talk about that a little bit more.
But so my family is all here in Lancaster. In fact I’m Nick you know this but I think it’s worth telling the story of. So I’m living now.
I bought the house that I grew up in bought that for my parents about 27 years ago. So living on this house right right in the corner in downtown Lancaster. And my daughter and her wife and my two grandchildren they live in a house right behind us.
So it’s just great. You know you have this like little family units right there. She she moved in there about 10 years ago.
We have the house and moved into that place. And then about four or five years ago my son moved into that same street. He was about eight doors down from Amanda.
So he and his girlfriend are there. So I’ve got the whole family on one city block in Lancaster City. And I tell you what it is one of the most wonderful things.
Just like having all your family that close and really experiencing you know just the day to day with our family. We have really close knit relationships with them. You know it’s phenomenal having this great great relationship with our granddaughters now as they’re just part of our lives.
You know I come home from work every day and you know you probably all have that experience of like when you were you know a young father and your kids you know see you coming home. And they come running up. I was like Dad you know I get that.
You know I’m living it the second time around. You know as I pull up in front of my house my granddaughters come running. Hey how are you doing?
What are you doing? And it is just like so heartwarming to have that experience and see you know see see your own. I mean this is one of the best experiences about having grandkids is like not just experiencing them but seeing your your children parent.
And like really like observing them and seeing like some of the behaviors that you knew that you exhibited as a parent seeing them exhibit some of those behaviors hopefully the good ones you know. And it’s funny. It’s just like talking to them about that.
I mean this is a classic story is like oh my God I acted just like you did. Oh my God. I felt like mom when I had this situation and being part of that and being there to experience that with them and getting to share those moments with them.
And just like all the serendipitous kind of experiences that you have of you know I talked to other other folks that have grandchildren. You know their kids live in California or Arizona or even just in Philadelphia. And like yeah I get to see them pretty frequently.
You know a couple of times a year we get together and I’m like holy smokes. It’s like we are so fortunate we get to see them like daily out there. And so they’re just part of the fabric of our lives which you know ultimately is one of the things I think is is pretty significant in terms of how we’ve crafted our lives and some choices that we made along the way to really make that a priority in our lives.
And you know in retrospect you know you don’t always think about how deliberate some of these choices are but they become like yeah I wasn’t going to go anywhere else. And even even like the existence of the dudes. I mean it had its origin story is in in the birth of Amanda my first daughter.
And you know so while it was while I was a student at F&M that that she was born. And so that you know that was kind of not exactly part of the original plan. And so you know it works in mysterious ways.
God does work in very mysterious ways. And but you know which I care and I talk about that all the time. It’s like my God just imagine what would have like what would our lives be like if that didn’t happen?
If that was I wouldn’t be having this painting company. And I think about the number of people that we influence and impact by having this business. I mean what would I have done?
So you know I graduated from F&M with my history degree. And you know I might have gone on to who knows what you know but it’s like no I did this thing. We started this business never with the intention of keeping it moving throughout that time.
It was it was really a situation like just an opportunity that we had to take advantage of you know.
Nicholas Paulukow
And what drew you to painting though? Like I mean like were your family painters or like that’s what I had in the garage or what?
Peter Barber
So the so the origin origin origin of all that to that question of how do we get into painting? So I guess when I was in about seventh grade you know we lived in the city and you know how in the city there’s these banks of garages of like 20 30 garages. And so my family had you know we rented one of these and it was just like this little tiny storage garage like you know 12 foot by 15 foot barely fit.
Remember going up there with my dad and the measuring the one garage to see if the Country Squire station wagon would fit into it. It’s like you literally had to put the bumper up against the front wall to close the doors. So my dad you know you get these things from your parents right?
So many of these things Nick I know you had you know from your dad you know just this hard work mentality of like hey look if you want to do something you’ve got to work hard. You’ve got to do things. You got to make this happen.
Nobody’s going to give it to you. Do things on your own. So you know that summer we were just you know it was my an older brother.
He’s a year older than me. And we were like what are we going to do this summer? I wanted to get some things together to get some money in dad’s like why don’t you call up Mrs. Hagee and see if she needs the garages painted. And so we called this lady you know and she’s like she was like some 75 year old woman that own these garages. Just the legacy of some investments that she made over the year and said you know and again this was you know my father was a school teacher. So and it was like this great lesson of no no no.
You have to make this phone call. You can imagine a little seventh grade. Anybody you know calling up somebody to help me out basically asking this woman if we can paint her garages.
So that summer my brother and I painted all these. He’s like there’s like I don’t know 30 40 is probably like 50 50 or 60 garages.
Nicholas Paulukow
Oh wow.
Peter Barber
So we painted the fronts of all these garages and we would just go up. We were pretty disciplined kids at the time. So first you had to wake up and do your paperwork you know.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah that’s how I got started baby. Paper route.
Peter Barber
And then after you finish your paper route then you could go and paint these garages. And so and you know at that point it was like do that. You know so we would we would get up at six o’clock.
We do our paper route. And then by seven o’clock we were ready to go to work. And then we would paint these garages from like seven o’clock to like noon because then it got hot in the afternoon.
We didn’t want to be doing that. We wanted to have some some bit of summer.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah.
Peter Barber
And so. You know that was kind of like that early early entrepreneurial experience of understanding like oh wow. Somebody’s going to pay us to do this.
And you know and we didn’t like I said I’m a seventh grader. I don’t know anything about this stuff. And how do you do this?
And so I was like all right works out and somebody’s paying us. And so we did all this stuff for it. And so we you know had great experience you know learned a lot during that process and just like built a foundation of doing things.
So fast forward to you know what six eight years later when I’m a freshman at F&M. And you know I’ve got to figure out hey look life is changing from as I knew it. And I’m going to I’m going to have responsibilities to Kara to this unborn child to kind of my life in general.
And I knew right away that my education was going to be foundational part of whatever happened. So you know it’s not like dropping out of college was not an option. And I knew that my college education was going to be super seminal in whatever I was going to do.
And you know frankly I got you know again like I said my dad was a schoolteacher. My mom was a stay-at-home mom. She worked one day a week as a part time nurse.
So you know in a family of four. And so I got a shit ton of scholarship money to go to F&M. And so don’t want to squander.
Nicholas Paulukow
That’s a pretty that’s a pretty fancy school you went to there.
Peter Barber
So interestingly my brother who’s a year ahead of me he went to F&M as well. Same scenario got a ton of scholarship money and you know was able to get to school there. And so same thing happened with the scholarship money.
So and so the part of the dynamic when you get like this kind of scholarship money it’s for four years. They don’t screw around with that. You have four years to get done.
And so you know it’d be really easy to say well you know then how many kids do we all know that are on the five year plan the six year plan? You can’t be on the five year plan at F&M if you’re you know unless you’ve got a ton of money.
Nicholas Paulukow
That five year plan means mom and dad are paying that bill. That’s what I’m hearing.
Peter Barber
Yeah. Yeah. So it’s like OK I got to do this because mom and dad weren’t paying.
I mean they were they weren’t paying much anything. And it was scholarship dollars. So OK figure this out.
Make sure that I can get this done. And so as I’m trying to figure out what’s going to go on it’s like OK well I’ve got to go to school full time with this this and I’ve got to work full time. And what can I do?
I’m going to own my schedule be able to dictate what I’m capable of doing. And so it really becomes again one of these moments of like hey I have to take self-ownership of what’s going to happen and I have to control it myself. I can’t depend on somebody giving me a paycheck because I’m going to be I’m going to be beholden to their schedule and their needs and their demands and their expectations.
So like well let’s you know. So that summer I actually got hired through a temp agency just to do some miscellaneous painting for them. And then we’re like OK look this is like working out again.
And so that’s just like let’s see. So family and friends we started putting feelers out and started doing this painting thing. So it was myself and my partner at the time Brian McCaskey who’s a buddy of mine that I went to high school with that that you know we were good friends all through high school.
And so that just kind of started and kept rolling. And so through the remaining three years at F&M you know was working full time. And I was the one knucklehead that was like looking for the 8 a.m. classes.
Nicholas Paulukow
Right.
Peter Barber
Because you remember how like when you were a college student how you’re like picking the classes and you’re like oh you’re looking through the book. And you know like one of the classes you know what are the what are the interesting classes? Oh I like this professor and this class sounds really interesting.
And so that’s how most people like choose their college curricula. No I was like which classes are at 8 a.m.? Because I need to get I need to get I need to go to start school at 8 a.m. If I do the 8 a.m. 9 a.m. 10 a.m. class then I could be at work by noon. And I could work from noon to the rest of the day and maybe early evening and get home grab you know slam down a quick dinner you know get to the library study at night and then start the whole thing over again.
And so did that for three years although actually my senior year you know I had this brilliant idea. I’ll start taking independent studies because you don’t have to go to class at all. Right.
You know and this was the mentality. I mean you know it worked out great schedule wise because you don’t have to go to class at all. But your workload is like 10 times more than it is anything else.
But again like this was the trade offs that I was I was like forging in my life. It’s like you know what? Like schedule and time like like work time and school time like the dynamics of that were like again that’s what’s dictated by others.
And then all the other stuff it’s like hmm. Well marginal issues of sleep you know right.
Nicholas Paulukow
That’s not necessary in your 20s. I remember that.
Peter Barber
Right. Right.
Nicholas Paulukow
And so two three in the morning getting up at six you know. Yeah.
Peter Barber
Yeah.
Nicholas Paulukow
And I don’t know if I could make it today. I’d probably do three days recovery.
Peter Barber
I tell you I couldn’t. So you know that’s really what formed a foundation of things is like. And you know there was those are some tremendous lessons again around self-determination and you know just like self-initiative of like OK this is what it’s going to take to get things done.
But I can’t depend on somebody else to take care of myself to take care of my wife to take care of my young family. It’s like they’re dependent on me. I have to make sure these things happen.
And you know by virtue of the work that I’m doing I can either make it happen or not happen. And you know I don’t know what I didn’t know anything about running a business. But other than you know it has to I have to make this work.
And a lot of times you know sure there were tons of mistakes along the way. But at the end of the day it’s like well so you just have to work harder or you have to work longer. And so when when those become your choices you figure out pretty quickly how to maximize any of those options and how to save time.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah.
Peter Barber
And how to create the efficiencies. And you know it’s funny I still think about like and I still employ some of these practices of like just the practicality of like little tiny things. Right.
And it’s all the stuff that we do. It’s like hey you know how do you like effectively multitask in any specific area or how do you like create this route of efficiency? You know both physical and like psychological and metaphorical in terms of getting from A to B.
And like you know and it’s like and what’s funny is like I realize how much it frustrates me when I see people not taking that most efficient route in in anything. And it’s like how do you not how do you not do this? And you know what I realize it’s like there’s like some people never had to really think about that in the same way because it didn’t the stakes weren’t at the same level.
Right. So the stakes the stakes for me were pretty high. It was about like my family.
It was about like just like financial survival for a number of years. And so when that’s your threshold of what success means it’s like you do anything to make sure that those things happen.
Nicholas Paulukow
You fight and you and you you dig and you scrape. You know I know the feeling. That’s an amazing story.
You know you talk about like with the intro we talked about like certified B Corp and probably not a lot of people know what that is. But like what drew like you to kind of build this? So I mean the drive to build this organization we just heard.
But like what drew you to kind of make it a mission based organization? Where did that come from?
Peter Barber
So there’s again this kind of multifaceted thing. Right. Right.
So Nick you can appreciate I mean growing up on Catholic household you have to have purpose behind your life. Right. And even though even though I might not be a practicing Catholic at this point there’s still like these foundational parts of my life that are really important.
So it’s a belief system that is not necessarily just based on like doctrine or you know kind of some religious like following. But it’s like you know whatever. I mean you know there’s there’s plenty of people.
And we’ve all heard this story of like oh just like reformed Catholic and I’m trying to survive in Catholic. It’s like whatever. Get over yourself with that stuff.
You know while I might not be a practicing Catholic I really do credit the my my my religious upbringing and my education with creating some foundational things that are really important to where I believe and how I believe I need to act as a person as a business owner and as a person in the community. And so you know looking at you know again this path was never to be a painter. Right.
And you know so so how do you how do you like create this and how do you create a business that is going to live up to the expectations that I have kind of as a person and I have in terms of our power and impact and influence within this community? I found out really quickly that you know a business can have a whole lot more impact and influence that I can just as Peter Varner. And so even from early early days it was always like OK well you know we didn’t have a lot of money but we had you know we could volunteer time we could volunteer effort we can like help community organizations we can do different things.
And and even in terms of our exchange with our employees like that was like really early on you know and we tried to be like responsible you know the contracting world in general can be like pretty corrupt in terms of how they how they you know what the what the exchange is amongst the people that are working for you. Right. So there’s this like whole subculture of subcontracting which frankly is pretty exploitive of the workforce because there’s no commitment no obligation to somebody else in the same way.
Right. It’s like OK hey you can work for me for twenty five bucks an hour. And you know there’s no benefits there’s no commitment.
And so like years and years ago like we started with like OK let’s just like be committed to this. And I remember like we put in like a health insurance program for our employees like early on. And part of it was like I needed a health insurance program.
So and what I saw I knew the challenges and the effort and the impact and the sacrifices that I was going to have to make to ensure that I had a health insurance program for me for myself and my family. And it’s like well you know these people that are giving their time and working for me they deserve some of that same stuff. So that was kind of some early on just like recognizing that reciprocal responsibility that we had.
And then also recognizing that hey you know we have this ability to be like a force for good and can really do this in ways that are more powerful than like some other institutions and organizations. And so now you know you can see this. Right.
So you know the the largest and most powerful and most influential force in this world is business. Right. You know you think about oh the government can do this.
So we’ve all experienced the limitations of government and and just like some of the power. I mean yeah sure. Government has power but there are impacts and influences that maybe are you know impacts of religious institutions.
Right. And again we’ve seen how religious institutions can do things but they have you know NGOs you know anything. So OK all these things are out there and they’re important.
I’m not trying to denigrate what they do or the impact. But who is who can be the most powerful? It’s like business can do this.
And if we can like get to a point where you know more and more businesses understand and accept that responsibility of their need to to really be powerful forces for good within our community. And you see this popping up from time to time. And we can talk all day long about you know whatever what Amazon does to the world and how that’s you know created this thing.
But there are some good things that they’ve done and there’s some good examples they’ve created and said along the way. Now can they do more? Sure.
You know can they impact things in a different way? Sure. You know every billionaire in the world you know I could take issue with what they’re doing in a wealth accumulation especially in a time of such injustice in the world.
But you know this is I likewise believe in free market and people’s ability to make those decisions. And you know hey everybody has the right to make those decisions. And some people’s opinion of what success means varies in different ways.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah. And that’s a good perspective about that. Like everybody’s definition of success is different.
Because sometimes even though we’re not supposed to we kind of compare ourselves to others. Right. Like like man that just looks so easy.
And maybe their definition of success is way different. That’s a valid point to kind of consider for those that are leading to right. Like you know success looks differently for everyone.
I think what you’re saying is money isn’t always the definition of success.
Peter Barber
Yeah. I don’t believe it is. And you know and I’m sure you know again people will take umbrage to that but it’s just like you know it’s like yeah it’s important.
And you know I want to make sure that I’m living you know I’m making some choices about how I want to live and what the expectations are. But you know you know you ever you know I mean God bless like the school teachers and the nurses that are making some decisions. And you know I think it’s you know it’s kind of ridiculous what we’re expecting of some people and that exchange of what it means to earn money and how we have either shown respect in that process or not.
I mean I you know I think about you know I’ve got some peers like in different areas of different businesses and different careers and different things. And you know I’m like holy smokes it’s like I’ve got a really good buddy that I spend a lot of time with that you know he works he’s a reporter for the newspaper. And you know we’ve talked about some stuff and I’m like dude it’s like you know I’m paying my painters.
Nicholas Paulukow
More than what you’re making.
Peter Barber
I mean which I mean you think about that and it’s kind of ridiculous. Right. And so here you know and we talk about this general distrust of the media.
You know it’s like come on man these guys are like they’re not making a ton of money. It’s like they’re they’re just getting by in a certain level. And yet we’re holding them to the standard.
And it just creates I think some really interesting dynamics. And we have to like think about like how we value different things. Right.
How do we value how do we value somebody’s ability to you know put paint on versus how do we value somebody that like their time and effort in communicating you know the really important things that are happening in our world to us?
Nicholas Paulukow
Well you make a point because as growing up as a child right. Similar Catholic faith Catholic education. And you know I felt guilty.
Right. Like when starting a business I’m like well I’m earning this money and trying to do good with it. And so one of my religious mentors I went to the one day and I said well help me understand this.
Like like it feels kind of wrong and like maybe I should stop. And he looked at me and he said hey listen what I want you to understand is God created all of us with different you know abilities and skills and talents. Very similar to what you’re talking about.
And he might have given you the talent to do that which others can’t. But it’s what you do with what you earn is what makes the difference. Right.
So since you have the power to do it and ability to do it then what are you going to do with it is really the cause and effect to the situation.
Peter Barber
Yeah.
Nicholas Paulukow
Go earn it and make as much as you want because you have the ability to do that because others don’t. But how do you help others?
Peter Barber
You know I would I would just twist that in a little bit different way that you know so the ends doesn’t always just justify the means. Right. So yes.
Yes. Earn the money. But how are you earning?
Are you earning that money in a respectful way?
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah. Right.
Peter Barber
So so lots of people kind of cleanse their conscience by doling out dollars.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah.
Peter Barber
Right. And that I don’t think is really as effective.
Nicholas Paulukow
Taking advantage of other people is really the problem.
Peter Barber
Right. And so how do we do things? And that’s part of our B Corps stuff is like understanding OK how are we respecting the people that are giving their time of us?
And how are we making sure that they’re being paid a living wage? How are we making sure that they’re getting the benefits they need? How are they how are we making sure that like their schedules that we’re asking of them are respectful of them as people and of their families and all those different things?
So that at the end of the day yeah we can still make some money. And are we making maybe different money than if we would have like you know cracked a whip and kept wages low? It’s like you know there’s all these choices that are part of things.
But you know trying to understand the dynamics around that and place the value on the process. Right. Of how we’re earning the money as much as it is on that end goal of earning those dollars.
Because you know arguably you know really treating all those stakeholders of the process as importantly as we do that end financial result. Like that’s that’s where some of the power and impact is really made. Right.
And that’s how we have this opportunity to be a force for good not just you know you know make a million dollars and donate half of it back. Right. But you know how about we make you know 750 thousand dollars.
And along the way we’ve like paid people fairly given them health insurance given them a retirement plan.
Nicholas Paulukow
And created other people that can make wealth too.
Peter Barber
Right. Because the net the net net net net of all of that for our society is going to be much better than just like me like plopping a load of cash on somebody. And you know it’s I get it.
It’s it’s a really long tail to to kind of wag this whole thing. But it’s like you know you think about the impact that that would have collectively if the more and more of that would go on. And we’ve seen this kind of rise of kind of stakeholder awareness like not just shareholder awareness you know but stakeholder awareness in terms of how that impacts things.
And you know and you know if you extrapolate this at its biggest level right it’s going to create larger successes all around. Right. So if if everybody is like you know being paid appropriately and has a lifestyle and has some piece of wealth you know is that going to get more people that can buy my painting services or need I.T. services?
Nicholas Paulukow
Right.
Peter Barber
You know be consumers or you know just be good citizens in the world. Yeah. Yeah.
That’s all going to happen. And so you know I don’t want to get too Pollyannish about this whole thing but you know I think there is kind of an ideal you know kind of an ideal world order that we can like hope for. I mean it’s not you know I’m not espousing a socialist society but there are these pieces of like how do we have shared responsibility for each other and how can we create at least a dynamic where you know it’s not it’s not a mandatory issue but it’s like something that’s like no it’s like let’s make sure we’re raising our eyes to the issues that are around us.
And being responsible in that space.
Nicholas Paulukow
Right. Yeah. Just not ignoring it.
I think that’s great. I think I think it’s amazing to hear kind of where you’ve come from and how you utilize your business kind of also to develop others which is amazing. Right.
That kind of segues into kind of leadership. Right. You’re creating this leadership level to be able to lead and teach these people that you work with on how to kind of also ignite your mission that you have of taking care of others.
So you said in the beginning like oh man I didn’t even know what I was doing in business. So now you’re I think what like almost 100 strong 80 to 100 people. Like that’s amazing.
Like so how do you go from I’m doing this on the side I’m just kind of digging in. And now like how do you become like an overnight leader? Like tell us about that because I need to know because you probably figured out the secret sauce or something.
Peter Barber
Yeah I got it all figured out.
Nicholas Paulukow
There was never a bump. Everything went perfectly.
Peter Barber
I’m going to lay it on you right now. I mean you know this. I mean it is not a simple path and it’s not a linear path and it has not come from any magic you know magic wand of anything.
There’s been tremendous mistakes along the way and there’s been ups and downs and start all over again kind of moments. And you know we’ve grown our business and we’ve grown it in different ways over the years. And we’ve been doing it.
I’ve been doing this for 37 years now which is a really long time.
Nicholas Paulukow
Wow you don’t even look 37.
Peter Barber
So you know just understanding I mean there’s you know so one of the interesting dynamics of our business is that you know we don’t have a product that we’re selling necessarily.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah.
Peter Barber
You know we don’t have a widget. We’re selling time. We’re selling I mean we’re selling just service.
And you know and my our dynamics are you know and there’s there’s no like multiple of my service right? So you think of like any of your software stuff or you know kind of a SaaS world where it’s like okay you make one you make one widget but then you can like multiply that a million times. And you’re like yes we found it.
It’s like no no no. I’ve got like one widget which is like eight hours of somebody’s time. And then for me to get another widget I like I’ve got to get another person.
And so this is all about like how are you developing people in order to be productive parts of our operation? And so like you can’t just like stamp out like that widget and here’s one. Okay here’s you need another one.
Here’s another one. But we’re like trying to take people and say okay here’s our value exchange is you know eight hours of our time is worth X dollars. And the only way that we get that is to bring another person in.
And so you know and unfortunately we can’t make people like we can’t just duplicate people into the same product as the person before them. We could do that. We’d be we’d all be set.
Right. And so like really understanding.
Nicholas Paulukow
Awesome. We need that cloning machine.
Peter Barber
Yeah. But understanding like how you motivate people how you get people how you bring people in. And you know we have people from all different walks that come in and they want to work for us.
And so you know finding their strengths and finding their capabilities and really maximizing all of those things along the way. I mean sometimes they might be a great craftsman but they have no leadership capability. They might be like some of the nicest people in the world but they can’t paint a straight line to save their lives.
And so that’d be that. And so trying to figure that out with our just with our field staff. Right.
That’s like part one of it all this stuff because that’s you know that’s that’s how we started this. You know it’s like I was out in the field painting every day. I was doing all this stuff and you know kind of running the business.
And so as that grew and eventually grew to a point where OK you know I have enough people out in the field and I’m not in the field anymore. And then so I’m just at the office you know and I was an office of one for a couple of years now. OK I got somebody else to work in the office with me and then started slowly ranks.
So then so then you know the dynamic of you know the kind of widget are my people out in the field. And you have to manage those people and they have certain skill sets. And it’s like oh shoot now I need to like how am I developing the administrative skill set that I need in other people?
And so that’s the next part of the equation. So there’s like different sets of people and different skills that I need to make sure that we’re getting there. And just like structuring and organizing that in different ways.
And how is all of this stuff that we’re doing? How am I imbuing kind of my bigger belief system of like OK be a good responsible business into everybody that’s there? Because what you know what made us successful early on was the fact that you know Brian and I were out there.
We were painting every day and our clients loved us. And we were like really nice good you know fresh young Catholic school boys that you know were committed you know friendly and could do all this stuff. And I show up at your house and you’re like oh great you know Pete’s here.
And you know we got to be really close to some of our clients over the years. And then all of a sudden I’m not there in their house.
Nicholas Paulukow
40 hours.
Peter Barber
But I’m putting somebody else there and somebody else that they better like I have to make sure that they trust and they can like be the kind of person that I was. And so to this day you know we talk about this. I have you know I get involved with orientation of our new employees.
Like I do the first like half hour supposed to be half hour usually stretches into 45 minutes to an hour. So I get started talking on stories kind of like I’m doing right now. And you know one of the thing is you know people have certain expectations of who a dude is.
You know when you say the dudes are coming to your house it’s like you immediately have some notion of the kind of person I’m going to put there. And so we have to make sure that those people are living up to that expectation. And so you know and you know it’s funny is that we you know I still have these buses that I drive around town.
And like you know and one of the things that this happens mostly with our office staff is like oh you got to come with me and just like take a drive in one of the bus. Because people see that and they like know it and they expect something. Right.
Like Pete like there’s literally people waving to you. And I’m like oh they just see the bus. It’s like they know that this is the bus.
And so they have certain expectations. I beat the horn and I wave back to him because a lot of times a lot of times it is people I know or it’s just like you know it’s just somebody that recognizes the vehicle and has a good time. I mean I was at Turkey Hill the other day and it’s a Sunday morning and I pull up.
I’m just getting the New York Times. This guy is like sitting in his car. He’s like cutting a butt.
Looks like he was like out all night the night before. He was just on his way home at like nine in the morning. He’s like hey is that your van your truck there?
He’s like yeah it’s true. He’s like ah I remember you guys years ago. He’s like you had those buses used to run around.
He’s like I’m really proud of how you grew your business. And I was like oh that’s cool. Like what is this?
This is like real. I mean it’s actually it really touched me. I’m like that is like awesome.
Right. So here’s this like crusty rusty you know 65 70 year old dude that’s just like you know going to get his cigarettes. And he’s like telling me he’s proud of my business and how we’ve grown.
And I’m like this is awesome. But that’s you know in my reaction to that because when he first you know he’s like hey is that your truck? You know it’d be really easy for me just like turn and just like scowl at him and walk away.
That’s like no no no. I have to like you know I’m I’m representative of the company and whatever. It’s easy for me to do.
It’s my business. And so I can like turn to him and be like yeah hey how are you doing? I can be super friendly.
But that’s the story that I that’s the kind of story that I would tell my employees on that first day of orientation. It’s like you know what? You are going to have a time that there is going to be you know you it’s like usually we do these orientations to group of people.
The three of you might all be walking into Turkey Hill together and you’re all going to be wearing your two dude shirts. And you know what? Somebody inevitably is going to see the three of you walking up and they’re going to say ah what is this?
I thought it was two dudes painting. There’s three of you here. And I said you know what your reaction is going to be?
And they’re like what? You are going to laugh like that is the first time you heard that joke. And that’s going to happen multiple times because that’s what people people are expecting you to be friendly.
People are going to they’re going to approach you in ways you know that you might not be used to. I mean we have we’ve we’ve like kind of isolated our society in such ways that you know when you go to get go to Turkey Hill and you’re picking up your iced tea or your ice cream or doing you know getting a snack in the morning you know it’s kind of one of those like the classic subway. You just kind of look straight ahead.
Right. You don’t necessarily interact with all the other people that are there. You just like kind of focus straight ahead.
But that doesn’t happen to us because you know our business has built this persona of being very approachable and very engaging. And it’s like and I need to make sure like I can’t be the one. I can’t be there all the time.
Like our people have to make sure that they’re doing that as well because that’s who they need to be. And that’s who they need how they need to represent our business.
Nicholas Paulukow
And if you take it in that way as well like how has we talked a lot about your community involvement right? How has your community involvement maybe influenced your business or maybe changed your business in some way? Has it?
I mean it seems as if they’re kind of one in the same the way that you talk about.
Peter Barber
Yeah. I mean again I think that that’s like part of my responsibility as a business owner here locally is that like I should be part of the fabric of this community in ways beyond just being an extractive part of it. And hey look I need to have this thing and you need to pay me money.
And we’re going to do it. But it’s like OK how are we being additive to the community around us? And I think that’s a big part of what I see.
And one of the passions that I have around this stuff I mean at the end of it and part of this is just like a personal thing. Right. Yeah.
It’s my like you know don’t get me wrong. I like painting. It’s all right.
But if like my like big it’s like if if my purpose was just to put paint on the walls I don’t think I’d still be doing this 37 years later. I think that there’s a bigger purpose behind what I’m supposed to be doing here. And part of that purpose is demonstrating all these things all these behaviors of like being engaged in the community.
And so yeah like I really enjoy that piece of things like I enjoy. And I spent seven years with the chamber doing stuff between board service there. You know I chaired the board there.
And again and I think that was one of those spaces where it’s like you know and our local chamber does a great job of this. It’s like I thought it was awesome. It’s like here.
I remember going to my first board meeting. I’m like sitting there. I’m like holy smokes.
I’m sitting in this meeting. It’s like here we are. And we were we were a pretty small business that we maybe had like 20 25 people.
And like I’m sitting here in this board meeting with like you know some guy from high associates some guy from Lancaster General somebody from Armstrong. And like no it’s like small business is like right recognized. And I think our community does this really well recognizes the power of small business the impact that small business has.
And I knew OK I need to be here and represent that constituency throughout this entire thing. And so that’s one of the things that I think I need to do and can do. And has that been beneficial to the business?
Sure. You know it’s like I’ve like been there and so gotten to connect with lots of people.
Nicholas Paulukow
Right.
Peter Barber
Our businesses our business has been kind of elevated into different areas. And you know but it’s funny I talk about that all the time like with my sales staff you know because I’m like so you need to go out to this business and do something. And it’s like so I know the owner you know we sit on these boards together.
It’s like chances are they’re not the one that’s buying the paint job though.
Nicholas Paulukow
I just that might be the president of the hospital. It really doesn’t know what maintenance is doing.
Peter Barber
Yeah.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah.
Peter Barber
Although although you know ironically but we paint for the president of the hospital you know so we paint his personal house. But you know we is that going to get us anything in not in the corporate environment the commercial prospects there? I’m like maybe maybe not.
But it’s like how do all those relationships they do matter some.
Nicholas Paulukow
I mean like there’s a small enough kind of like it’s kind of like you’re saying that you’re giving so much back. You must receive kind of like what we were taught as kids. Right.
Peter Barber
Yeah.
Nicholas Paulukow
Like if you give and you will receive and relevant to what that fruit is you know you know people that are that are trying to start their business in like a local community say it’s not even in Lancaster. You know what advice would you give them to kind of employ you know the same leadership and positive community impact that your organization is driving? Is there like one or two things that you could suggest to them?
Peter Barber
Well so I think what’s interesting about this so we’re we’re we’re trying to do this even in a not local community. We’re looking to expand our operation into different areas like down into Chester County. And I’m like huh it’s like this is like really interesting because I don’t I’m not from Chester County and I’m not there as there is part of the culture.
And so your question is like relevant even back to what we’re trying to do. So you know and a lot of the strength of how we’ve grown our business has been these relationships and engagement with the local community in really meaningful ways. And so you know yes.
So to answer your question I tell people hey look just just be out there you know make sure you’re connecting with people and connect with them in meaningful ways. And you know yes you know you know give and you shall receive kind of stuff. But you know don’t expect to receive.
Don’t do this. You know none of this stuff can be done. I mean we’ve all heard it’s like you can’t expect that to happen.
Right. It’s like if it happens it happens. It doesn’t like just get over yourself and just like keep doing what you do for the reason of giving not the reason of getting.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yes.
Peter Barber
Yeah. I mean the the that that kind of reciprocation of things. I mean that’s the bonus.
That’s not the expectation. And I mean we’ve all seen that. Right.
We’ve seen the folks that are going to the networking things and passing out cards and trying to connect with people. And they’re like I didn’t get anything out of this. You’re missing the point here.
Nicholas Paulukow
ROI zero.
Peter Barber
And if if that’s the mentality around it sure you’re not going to be successful. But you know the ROI on any of this stuff is sometimes I mean I’ve made some really great relationships with people that you know you just don’t ever have any idea like how and when and where you know that’s going to be impactful in your life and in ways that you would never expect. I mean I you know there’s I can think of like you know I remember a relationship.
There was a realtor that you know I started to develop a relationship with and I wasn’t getting any business out of them. They weren’t doing me any good. But you know what?
When my son ended up buying a house you know I had some things that were going on. And just like called them to get some. They weren’t even dealing with us like they weren’t even a realtor on any side of the equation.
But there was some advice that I got from them that ended up being like really really valuable and influential and impactful in a situation I had at the time. And you know I couldn’t have gotten that if I didn’t invest the time in just like getting to know somebody. And you know the number of times that those things have happened you just can’t even begin to calculate what that means.
And if you’re just like trying to calculate ROI on every minute of your day and everything that you do you know this goes. I talked earlier about like how I like really value how I spend my time and how I like analyze like what I’m doing. It’s like well that’s part of it is just like you know going to do things.
I mean I was out for breakfast this morning with with my marketing staff here and you know and we were sitting in a coffee shop downtown. And we were meeting with actually with somebody from EDC talking you know again just like building relationship. They’re making sure you know EDC is an important part in our community.
How do we need to get involved with this place? You know what are they doing? And they were just like cracking up because it looked like people were just like walking by and like oh my God you know freaking everybody don’t you?
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah I walk out of your house every day.
Peter Barber
I’m sorry. This is like what I mean. Yeah.
Isn’t this what I’m supposed to be doing? Isn’t this I mean at this point in my life. Right.
So what what is the most impactful thing that I can do as you know CEO and president of my company is making sure that we’re represented in this community in a really really robust way. All the practical things at this point. You know going back to some of the focus of this it’s like I’ve had to build leaders into some of the practical functional areas that are.
They are way way better than I am at doing these things. I mean I had to do it for years just because I was a function of what I needed. But I am not the best at a lot of this stuff.
And I’m not you know I can’t execute on those things at the same level that you know my operations guys can that my marketing people can my HR people can. And so having people in here that have real subject matter expertise and then you know OK Pete what are you doing? I guess I’m just hoping to direct this in a high level way and establishing a culture for what our business needs to do and making sure that those people within the community and connections that I have within the community that nobody else can do in the same way that they can really be meaningful and fruitful for us as we continue to grow and evolve our business over the next couple of years.
And so empowering people to do their roles you know empowering them to take take authority empowering them to like exceed the expectations maybe that I had or I was capable of executing on. And it’s like OK yeah that’s what I want. I mean I want that in spades.
If everybody can do that then we’re all on a path to success because your expertise coupled with your expertise coupled with your expertise is much much more than anyone.
Nicholas Paulukow
What advice would you give for someone that’s aspiring to be a leader? Maybe they don’t even know that they’re a leader. You know what advice could you give them after 37 years of kind of doing this right?
Like like what what advice would you give them?
Peter Barber
Yeah I think there is. I mean first of all there’s like. To have aspirations for early for leadership I think you have to start with a certain level of humility.
Right. Understand that you’re not going to blow into something and all of a sudden like who you’ve got this leadership role and take that humility into that space of like asking for asking others asking others to like engage you and talk to you and build relationships with others. Because you’re going to learn a tremendous amount through that type of mentoring that that you’re really going to learn much more quickly than just you doing things.
I mean you know I’m I’m a pretty rabid reader. And so I read a ton of stuff. I connect with a ton of people.
I’ve always tried to put myself into a position in multiple things that I do whether it’s in you know in in in peer groups I’m involved with in leadership groups that are involved with even like down to like the people that I run with that I think of myself as like the weakest person in that group.
Nicholas Paulukow
Right.
Peter Barber
So you want to you want to run with people that are faster than you learn leadership with people that are better than better than you want to put yourself in a peer group of people that are better than you. So that you know the expectation is that you’re going to rise and they’re going to lift you up. And you know I could get in is like oh yeah.
Hey I’m a big man on campus. I could do all these things. And it’s like well I’m not learning that I’m missing out on opportunities.
Nicholas Paulukow
So I want to place it then you know like what am I going to do?
Peter Barber
Right. And that’s where this issue of humility comes back into play. It’s like look it’s like just be humble enough to understand that you don’t know anything.
And that you can learn a lot from other people and that you can grow a lot from other people and be willing to take advantage of all those opportunities. And sometimes you know yeah. Is that a risk?
Is it like scary sometimes walk into the room? It’s like you better be intimidating. You should be.
And if you’re not intimidated in those situations you know you’re probably missing out on a lot of opportunities. If you’re not scared about something you know you’re not taking any risk anywhere. You’re missing out on all those opportunities.
So in terms of how you create this opportunity for leadership and where you create this opportunity to learn and grow. It’s by seeking out people that are smarter better faster stronger whatever the issue might be than what you are. And you know being humble enough to understand and appreciate that.
And like kind of serving you know sitting in this position of look I’m here to learn.
Nicholas Paulukow
I love it. I love it. And you just mentioned a minute ago that you love to read.
So give us maybe three of your top books that are kind of unilateral to like business or leadership or growth. You know, this is the question that I learn every time. The last conversation I had.
It was amazing. I found some books that I never even knew existed. So oohh’s and aahh’s, Pete.
Peter Barber
So the one over the last couple of years that I’ve referenced like lots of times in terms of how I’m doing things and what I need to do at this point. We’re making some transitions in our business. I’m trying to figure out, like, what’s what’s my role?
Yeah. Is who not how. Right.
Nicholas Paulukow
I love it.
Peter Barber
I think that’s the book that you’ve read in the past.
Nicholas Paulukow
Yeah, I love it.
Peter Barber
But it really it’s like, you know, so being an entrepreneur like, you know, we’ve all come up through this moment of like, OK, how do I get all this stuff done? How do I get this stuff done? How am I going to do this?
How am I going to do this? How am I going to get this thing? And realizing that bringing other people in and really finding that expertise with someone outside of who we are and making that impact in a way that’s really influential, that I can multiply the kind of effect of all this stuff by finding that right who for every situation.
And sometimes, you know, sometimes I’m going to be the right who for things and that’s fine and that’s important to recognize that. But most times it’s going to be somebody else is the right who. Right.
To really make an impact and have power and influence on things. So I’m just I’m looking at my bookshelf here.
Nicholas Paulukow
Oh, all right. And I think the one that you need is it’s called Go Giver. Have you ever heard of that book?
No, no. It’s a it’s a small book and it’s called The Go Giver. And it is the it’s the definition of what happens when you grow as a business and and someone.
It’s kind of a fable about a young man that’s getting into business and has a definition of what it means to be in business. Very similar to what we were talking about today, but what it means to give, which is pretty neat.
Peter Barber
So the other one I’m just seeing that kind of my favorite shelf here. So the culture code, you know, that one is just about how you create culture within your business and the value and the impact of culture. You know, I think that we are, you know, and we’ve gone through times that our culture has really suffered.
And I saw the impact that that had on our staff and on frankly, at the end of the day, on our results of things and how that, you know, really being able to refocus back on that. And again, and that, you know, the opportunity to refocus on it, that was that was a who who can focus on it. I couldn’t vote.
I didn’t have the time, the effort and energy to really focus on as much. So I found that who could come in and say, hey, look, you need to refocus on this thing. This is the foundation of what we believe and make sure that all these things that I’m talking about, we’re actually doing those things and executing on them in real time.
And so that’s been really, really impactful and important things. And then the other the other one is first break all the rules. And now and that’s really about just like understanding, hey, you know, and look, that’s what we’ve done like forever.
It’s just like part of me is like, what are you doing here? It’s like, I don’t know. You know, it’s like, you know, the first of all, the idea of having a painting company called Two Dudes Painting Company and then driving around in these like old Volkswagen buses and then just like having this whole, you know.
I mean, I remember early on people like, who are these guys? What in the world is going on? It’s like, oh, you know what?
The end result was, hey, we were just being true to who we were as people. And that’s that’s the that’s the important thing. And that shouldn’t be an authentic.
And, you know, and it was about just like to be your true, authentic self, you know, break the rules of what you think, you know, business, society, whatever it is demands. And but be true to what you know, the kind of proverbial foundation of your own existence is. And, you know, if you really believe that you’re living that the right way, you’re going to be successful.
You know, all the stuff of like, you know, giving back to the community in these ways that I just thought were really important that, you know, I remember early on we were doing some stuff and we spent plenty of years. We like literally made no money. We were just like literally scraping to get by.
And the guy was like helping us out with some of our finances and he was just like doing, you know, entering our QuickBooks stuff, you know, doing that kind of thing. And, you know, it came it was around Christmastime and we were doing some stuff and we were like, you know, we were like giving money to some community organizations. He’s like, what?
He’s like, well, just put this in the books. Just understand what’s going on. He’s like, he’s like talking.
He’s like, Pete, you haven’t taken any money. You haven’t taken a salary in two months. I was like, yeah, but you know what’s really important?
This is really important. And like that’s going to be just like understanding like what is the important things? And it’s like, whatever, I can sacrifice some things for myself.
But if I see the value in some other thing that we’re doing or the value of some other relationship that is going to be more important than some moment in time that I might have or some experience, it’s like, you know, and this is just sacrificing in many, in many different forms. Whether it’s financially, time wise, you know, just the effort that you’re making or just even just like spending time and sitting with somebody like those things are really important and really understanding like how all of that matters and being able to line those things up in ways that make sense to you. They might not make sense to anybody else.
And a lot of times they don’t make sense. Some of the choices that we’ve made over the years, like people are like, what in the world? And it’s like, what’s this?
You know, remember one guy that’s working with us, you know, he was like his father said, you know, you can’t be a dude forever. And just because of the time, this was like probably 25 years ago, 30, actually 30 years ago. And there wasn’t faith and confidence in what two dudes was ever going to become.
And I get it. I mean, it wasn’t a derogatory thing. But it’s like, chances are you can’t be a dude forever.
This guy’s worked for us for over 17 years, you know, and he’s there and he’s still part of the organization. So he knew what it meant to be a dude because he had belief and faith in it. And he’s helped to build us to where we are right now.
And he’s like one of the foundational pillars of our organization. And so by having that and just being really believing in yourself, being true to ourselves, you know, we didn’t take a path. I mean, we could have taken, you know, I could have read all the, you know, entrepreneurial leadership books in the world.
And yeah, I learned something. And I have read a lot of that stuff. But it’s like, but at the same time, it’s like, some of those things don’t resonate with me.
And I need to do the things that I believe are going to be the right things. And yeah, lots of mistakes, lots of problems, lots of challenges. But it’s like, here we are.
Nicholas Paulukow
Well, as we kind of wrap up for today, do you have any closing comments or feedback for the listeners that you think they should know?
Peter Barber
No, I think that last bit really summed up a lot of it is be true to yourself, right? Be true to your beliefs, be true to what and, you know, and an understanding that your rewards come in many different ways, you know, so some of my rewards, you know, they might not be the kind of financial rewards that some people really value. But my rewards come in other ways, just like seeing the successes of, like of other people, seeing the opportunity to grow in different ways, seeing the kind of really fun and exciting projects that we get to be part of, and just seeing the impact that that has on other people.
You know, one of the things that we do, right, and this is a quick final story here. So we paint these murals around town, right? And so one of my favorite murals is on Manor Street, right across from the Kunzler factory.
You’ve probably seen this driving up Manor Street. It says, kid, he has his arms raised in the air. It says, rise with strength.
And we were painting that mural. And we’re developing the plan to do this, getting all this stuff together. And, you know, that was purely a self-generated project.
We said, hey, we want to put something here. And so I literally am knocking on the door of the house and was like, hey, do you mind if we paint this mural on the side of your building? He’s like, yeah, sure, do whatever you want.
And so we’re painting this thing. And remember, our artists were there and they were painting this young, it’s a young boy with his arms raised in the air. And, you know, it’s that Superman pose, right?
It’s a position of power. And, you know, it says, rise with strength. And there’s a McCaskey bus stop right across the street.
So there’s like 50 kids there. That’s what they look at every day, rise with strength. And, you know, and we had just finished painting that young man on the wall.
And there were a couple of kids walking up the street. I happened to be walking home from work that day. And these kids, like, they saw this mural for the first time.
Nicholas Paulukow
And these kids, yeah, it grows.
Peter Barber
And it’s like, holy smokes. It’s like we gave them, you know, and this, that position, right? Superman pose, the Wonder Woman pose, you cross the finish line, you won the race, you raise your arms in victory.
Like, we gave that to those kids. Like, that wouldn’t have been there. And like, that just gives me chills to think about the power and the impact that we can have just on putting this thing on the side of a building, using our creativity in a way that created this good for these kids.
It’s just like this little moment of positivity in their lives that just made a power and had some impact. And I think that’s what we’re all here to do. It’s like, how do we create that positive moment in somebody else’s life?
You know, create positivity for yourself, you know, spread that out throughout the community, spread that with your family, spread that with your workforce, spread that larger level. Like, that’s what our role is in society. And if we can all do that, you know, we’re all going to be successful.
Nicholas Paulukow
Well, I love it. That’s a way to wrap it up. That’s powerful.
I love that. And that’s a wrap. That’s another episode of Servant Leadership Library.
I’m excited that we had Pete here today. I’m your host, Nicholas Paulukow, CEO of ONE 2 ONE, your go-to MSP and cybersecurity IT firm. We had a fantastic time chatting with Pete today, one of the dynamic founders of Two Dudes Painting Company.
And Pete and his team are the real deal using their certified B Corporation status to show that business can indeed be powerful force for good, like he was just saying. From his roles with the Lancaster Chamber, the Lancaster City Home Rule, commissions, you know, Pete’s commitment to community and leadership shines through, as you can obviously tell. And thank you for tuning in.
If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, leave a review, or maybe even share it with your favorite superhero or a painter even. Until next time, keep leading with heart, stay safe in the cyber world. And remember, a little paint and a lot of passion can go a long way.
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